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16 Aug 2006
| #21 | |
| Anemone Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Trickster Stats  Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | 
I'm doing 0 damage on lvl 70 mobs that i -still- need to pull another SS even if it only has 53 HP left, thus i don't need that DA booster skill on at all, since i still need... to do 2 hits or 3 regardless. So of course, improving things that improves hit rate is a more sensible choice than maintaining nominal damage #. Another thing is that, given the uncertainty nature of many things including if player's lvl affects the rate of hitting, i think you shouldn't even "combine" or draw any conclusion using Arvec's raw data. Unless Arvec decides to do the experiment on, say lvl 33 monster, what you did on those fish and your findings only holds true on your own character only, unless you also do similar experiment, but this time on much higher lvl mobs. In comment to someone who posted that the hit rate % of ss is of a set number; even though i did not record and tabulate data, i can say with certainty that after killing 900 hula octopus to farm 300 legs at lvl 5x, my SS hit rate is far beyond 70% on them, far more than the outlook of what i normally get doing normal training on monsters close to my lvl. It might be due to different factors, but the sample data differ by much to your obervation. ------------------------------------------------------------------- @ Kikkoman "lol....long sentence...wordy....." Arven, brtalog, and other contributors might not mind, but i think, if you cannot at least appreciate other people's efforts, doing some tedious unpaid job for the benefit of community, you should... not say things as such. "P.S. I think that's the reason my Korean friend(who has played foreign Trickster before) recommended a 2341 build for my fox, that explains the 2." And since you are proudly declared, implicitely, how you are "englightened" by others without doing any work or spend much reading, why not tell us and share your knowledge? How about you explain about that.. that 2 thing? Why 2? not 3? not 1? I say that it's a better choice to leave it at one if you need one of the 3 sub-stats raised and spend it on maybe charm since you benefit from 3 sub-stats at the cost of 1 point of stat main built. So, enlighten us, parrotman :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ @Malicx Can you cite the link please, i read japanese, hope that helps in trying to locate some info. Maybe the numbers are added to get the "dominator" to determine the 'finalized' hit rate. | |
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17 Aug 2006
| #22 |
| Tutankhamen  Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 99
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | As I re-iterate, I was just trying to figure out which stat has an impact on stone strike accuracy - something to consider, not plan builds over. I still plan to do research to see if there is a level-based modifier, however, as I noted, in order to not skew the results we need as many consistent factors as possible. If I were to use a different target it's HV may be different, giving us a different base accuracy result even if we include the level-based modifier. The result could end up any number of ways. Say, for example, that there is not a level-based modifier. Then, if I randomly choose an enemy with a lower HV, the 'results' would 'conclude' that there is one, not because of it's existence, but because of the shift in HV. If there is, indeed, a level based modifier, I could end up randomly choosing an enemy with a higher HV and possibly end up negating the bonus, and the results would imply that there is not one. So... My plan is to simply level up and then conduct the same test again, on the same enemy. I'll simply adjust my gear so my AC is the same as the first set of 200 samples I took. Then, the only difference will be my level. Last edited by Arvec : 17 Aug 2006 at 07:37 AM. |
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17 Aug 2006
| #23 |
| Tutankhamen  Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 91
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | "I'm doing 0 damage on lvl 70 mobs that i -still- need to pull another SS even if it only has 53 HP left, thus i don't need that DA booster skill on at all, since i still need... to do 2 hits or 3 regardless. So of course, improving things that improves hit rate is a more sensible choice than maintaining nominal damage #." having more DA there is ofc, essential. with just 2 extra DA, you could overstep that extra 53 HP and have 1 less hit. generally, you train on mobs which you JUST kill. i was training on torpedo fish for a while because i could OHKO by about 30 hp now im doing forest wasps, because they are just about twoHKO, and same for merrows i wouldnt be able to do that if i wasnt wearing full +DA equip. soon i will train on mantis when i can OHKO them ofc, all monsters i fight are above my level. its because of this that i change which monsters i fight very often. i always check out the guide to check what i can OHKO or twoHKO using my SS with six sense, or without. but here, i would have to step back and fight monsters with less hp <and less potential exp as a result> if i were to reduce my DA and increase my accuracy. and seriously, accuracy bonuses seem REALLY small compared to DA bonuses. i could understand perhaps, sacrificing hp or MP for accuracy, but not DA, no way.
__________________ The world is merciless, why should i care? -Brother Glorat |
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17 Aug 2006
| #24 | |
| Anemone Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 50
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) |
http://trickster.nao-yuki.jp/wiki/in...B6%B3%D0%B7%BF | |
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17 Aug 2006
| #25 | |
| Anemone Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) |
It's your preference, works best with you, but certaintly not one that maximize exp gain ->over time<- (i can't stress overtime enough) given wider range of levels (and this is only in terms of xp gained, not including training cost factor, etc). 1. your choice of mobs are so limited, here you stated it yourself. 2. that makes your party choice limited as well 3. monsters have better def/mag def/hp progression or combination of those than you can ever be able to raise your DA to cope. Might do on lower/mid/special type of monster, but then you do not plan to stay at the lvl. There is a point where you won't get that 1 hit ko luxury anymore. 53 HP was simply used as example to illustrate a portion of HP outside that 1hit range, if 1700HP or even 600 HP was used instead of 53 (vs that 2400 total damage dealt) the role of 2 DA is simply of non existence. 4. exp gain fighting higher (enough) monster far outweigh that obtained from that special mob that dies in 1 hit. 5. most people fall into the mistake of thinking in terms of nominal. Each misses occurance from ss means 3-7 seconds prolonged battle (no, you are not THAT sensitive to perfectly time and click ss on the mob right after cool down time is over, might get lucky a few times to time it so well, but 10000000 times during your fight? add to that ss animation and time to walk/re-aim the mobs-if you hit and run type. And that one miss means that 2xxx whatever damage loss you are doing). 6. Remember that what ultimately matters is exp overtime (under the argument that DA = more dmg = faster kill = more xp), time needed to pick-and-choose what to kill on a map = time wasted as well. Might be a different story if the mobs can be grouped and lined into 2 or 3 column where you simply walk 1 step forward to shave one by one down, but that is not the case. There are other factors. By no means i'm forcing you to sacrifice DA however. Pumping it to the max obviously suit your style of playing best. I'm merely showing that it's not the wisest choice to pursue if one has optimization in mind. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Japanese doesn't seem to give any note about the ss hitrate. Aside from damage calculation {DMG = (DA+1) x (0.3)(0.5)(dmg% on desc.)}, it mentions how SS lands less frequently than shuriken mastery, which agrees with Arvec finding. The 2 stats cover hitratio of the 3 types of atk: Luck - magic & gun hitrate/evade; dex (AC) - physical atk (note: it also determines -critical- ratio of physical/magic skill attack, as per jpn wiki, lifted my eyebrow when i read this part). I wonder if SS is treated as if it's a type of physical attack as per Arvec findings (AC as the contributor of %hit) or maybe a special case which AAM (refer to jpn wiki/Malixc post) is compared to AC value (whether it's in form num/denum or 1-(aam) or whatever it might be, since lower value of AAM/ATM shows higher hit rate. In this case Arver finding and wiki are in agreement that ATM which has lower value hits more often). Looking forward to see more of it. Keep up the good work :) | |
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17 Aug 2006
| #26 |
| Kilimanjaro Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 277
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | hmm I kind of misposted when I stated that I thought SS had a fixed hit rate (I was rushing out the door for work)... and I felt pretty foolish XD BUT I still feel that: either ss has a CAPPED (maybe not fixed) hit%, or it has a SERIOUS REDUCTION in hit rate. I'm not really going to bother to look into this too much, because I don't like SS enough to adjust my build to add accuracy to it. I'm pretty satisfied (at least at level 60) with shuriken. but, it seems pretty clear to me that, since everyone from AC lions to AC foxes is missing with SS, that there is PROBABLY some element of hit reduction. my friend (a buffalo) almost never misses with his melee attacks, even when he isn't using the AC buff, so why would a 4141 lion miss any more? clearly there is more to it than "foxes don't have AC so SS doesn't land". having said that, it seems that AC *probably* has some kind of effect on SS. in ANY case, this discussion has helped me (and I'm sure many others) refine their thought processes on how SS works and how it fits into their overall builds, and I'd like to sincerely thank everyone involved, but especially that SS using lion, mikio, brtarolg, and arvec (as the one who started it all) for being pioneering and investigating a mystery shared by many! |
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17 Aug 2006
| #27 | |
| Hula Octopus  Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 11
 Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) |
"And since you are proudly declared, implicitely, how you are "englightened" by others without doing any work or spend much reading, why not tell us and share your knowledge?" Once again, don't flame me, or put words into my mouth. I did not proudly declare(or whatever arrogant atitude you think I put on) that I was enlightened, and I actually do a lot of reading about fox stats etc. I just don't have the time to post all the stuff I read because it's just way too much. And I really have no clue why my Korean friend recommended 2341, it's just now I have a hunch about why there's a 2. I never said it was the best build or anything, and she never told me the details(she had to go to work). Last thing: Don't call me parrotman, ftw
__________________  The bars each have a theme I made it entertaining >_> For your viewing pleasure        Now go mow the lawn son | |
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18 Aug 2006
| #28 |
| Torrobie Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | Ok guys... It's true AA is acc is not based on luk. In fact, I have no idea who put luk... I looked up wiki personally and here are the 2 builds possible (Assasin/ Different "new" assasin) Assassin attack MAX Inspiration MAX Gun (able to carry guns) Invincible reload Gun Boosting MAX Armor Break 1 Lucky 7 MAX Lucky Day 5 Detonator MAX Lucky Day MAX Heavy carrier level 10 Fear Bag MAX 1st job stops at L7. This is made for max accuracy. Notes with build: Stop Lucky Day at level 5 to master detonator (useful aoe skill) There has been a patch that powers up AT (assasin throw) so it's possible to substitue. New assasin Assassin attack MAX Inspiration MAX Assasin Throw MAX Armor break 1 Lucky 7 MAX Lucky Day MAX Detonator MAX Heavy carrier 10 Fear Bag MAX This build levels early like this -> Use AT then AA. This was noticed to be a good way to level. Also, since you spend less points on guns (and the base % acc of AA is good enough), then you can master lucky day immediately, then Detonator (skill comes at TM level 90). You will have 3 extra TM points when you master Fear Bag I didn't see why it didn't want to master Brave Throw (increases AT's DMG) on 2nd build. And since you are a 4 sense build, your WT will be out of proportion, to which fear bag will be really good. Also, with 2nd build, you can use those 3 points for drilling. (I heard somewhere that 90 DA is all you need for drilling). Put 1 in invincible drilling (I got it a low level and love it) and 2 into "Dowsing". With 90 DA you can detect 1 area up to 315 feet.  |
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18 Aug 2006
| #29 | |
| Tutankhamen Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 91
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) |
1. my choice of mobs is limited. and there is a problem with that? its simple i just move mobs every few levels its not hard. i know all the mobs, and know what mobs i will be training on later, and i know exactly how much my SS does buffed and unbuffed to different kinds of monsters with different defence. even then, i have two different attack damages. there are plenty of mobs to choose from. if i just pick a random damage, like 1k normal and 1.45k buffed, and im allowed to one hit OR two hit ko monsters, that leaves me with PLENTY of options. i could go for ironclad turtle, mushumushu or queen mummy unbuffed for 2 hit ko or i could choose something with a physical weakness, like queen yamu, and go straight for a buffed OHKO. or, if i want buffed 2HKO, i could go kill kokebis which also have a physical weakness, and allow me to 2HKO. i could also kill requi, with their low hp but physical strength whilst buffed. in each of these cases, i dont lose out more than maybe 50 damage per shot. and EVEN then, all i have to do is pick the most optimised out of the lot, so im losing almost nil damage a shot. if i widen my choice to 3HKO, then my choice becomes even wider. 2. my party choice is either special, <all female>, type <all sense/fox>, or royal. i dont understand how choosing the mobs i fight will make it so that i have a "limited party choice". it doesnt matter where you fight, if you cant find a party there, then you cant find a party. tbh, once you get to the higher levels, there arnt enough many higher levelled people ANYWAY, so finding a party can be tough. the only POSSIBLE problem i could have with parties is if i decide to hunt in some extremely remote area where nobody goes. in which case, i just pick another one of the 5 monsters i could hunt >_> 3. where in the world did i say i HAD to go for OHKO. it just so happened that when buffed, against a physical weakness monster, i was CAPABLE of a OHKO. that monster was also higher level than me, so = win and good exp. but there is NOTHING wrong with 2HKO, or even 3HKO 4. i ALWAYS choose my monsters from those who are higher levelled than me. and trust me, there are plenty of monsters to choose >_> 5. yes and? what does this have to do with making AC better than DA? even with +8 AC, you would expect a massive increase in accuracy, but there wasnt. be generous and say that +30 AC = 100% accuracy. so what? it STILL means that ill be taking 3-7 seconds to fire off an SS, regardless of my accuracy. and it would STILL be worth it to instead, go for +30 DA, and hunt much tougher and stronger monsters <with more importantly, more HP, and thus, more exp>. 6. oh ffs. ok thats like saying "time i spent this morning eating breakfast that was just wasted, because instead i should have been grinding ingame". time is ALWAYS wasted. always always. i spend almost two hours playing card games a few days ago, ZOMG i could have been 3 levels higher if i had super powerleveled during then. this strategy is for WHEN you are fighting, to gain the most efficient amount of exp possible in the time that you are fighting. and tbh, it toko me 5 minutes to look up the monsters. they are all over the wiki, and on japanese guides, and the boards are the edge of each town tell you what monsters are where. ---- the ONLY time ACC is worth sacrificing for DA, is MAYBE i want to sacrifice ONE DA, because im outdamageing this mob by about 100 or so, and its the most efficient mob i can fight, and so you can unequip your disabled persons pocket and equip a +1AC item so you can have an extra 1% accuracy. personally, im really not THAT bothered to worry about things like that. if you are worried about small things like that, then thats fine. but getting DA over accuracy, thats not a small thing, thats a BIG thing. this makes your fighting ALOT more efficient. FORTY SEVEN extra damage per da. FORTY SEVEN!. thats a MASSIVE increase in damage compared to accuracy. i mean its so big, that it wouldnt be worth getting a +3AC item in return for a 1DA item. not until you are doing at least 15000 points worth of damage or some rediculously high number like that. ------------------------------------------------- new post: ok you know what, im wrong. to make it the "most efficient", i need to have six sense on ALL the time when i am fighting, because thats maxing out my DA. --------- ok wait a sec, thats just fine too. i can just kill kokebis. no seirously, give me a DA of any number you want, and i will show you what monsters to hit, if you think it takes too long to figure out yourself.
__________________ The world is merciless, why should i care? -Brother Glorat Last edited by BrTarolg : 18 Aug 2006 at 05:11 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost | |
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18 Aug 2006
| #30 |
| Tutankhamen Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 99
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | It appers that you are both incorrect...to each other. Higher accuracy versus higher damage has always been a debate. In the end, it is simply personal preference. I think that DA is more worth it, simply because it's usually a 1 DA vs 1 AC trade-off, and it is my opinion that the point of DA is more useful. In the end, that's just it - it's my opinion. |
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18 Aug 2006
| #31 |
| Hula Octopus  Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16
 Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | How often lions miss with SS is relative to if they have played foxes or not. I could play a bunny and say it has terrible accuracy and still be telling the truth if I never played a fox. Also, to keep a good control - I would use one mob to test with both lion and fox. I miss most of the time on salamanders, but I can hit Gallis 75% of the time. I hope when PVP comes out, we can fully test this problem using Sense and Charm characters, and speculating on if evasion and lv affects hit rate. But hey, I could care less, I need lv 10 SS anyways for AB lv 1 for Lucky Seven. [edit] I'd still trust the koreans/japanese. their version has been out way longer than ours.
__________________ Last edited by Jellopy : 18 Aug 2006 at 07:26 AM. |
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18 Aug 2006
| #32 |
| Tutankhamen Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 91
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | arvec have you done any more tests with as much AC as you can possibly put on? i dont have any +AC equips. if you know any cheap ones, im happy to do another 500 tests WITH the AC equip on.
__________________ The world is merciless, why should i care? -Brother Glorat |
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18 Aug 2006
| #33 |
| Anemone Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 28
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) | I'm still convinced stone strike has a flat accuracy of like 72% regardless of stats. I have never noticed a difference in accuracy no matter what I fight, even if its like 50 levels below me. Anyway, just to help contribute to this thread, here is this random chart I made. It assumes a naked, all DA Fox. All skills are assumed to be mastered. Equations used were that of the japanese wiki. I really hope to, at some point, learn the precise equation for accuracy so I can predict some sort of dps value. But as it stands right now, I think fear bag and assassin throw are going to be the way to go due to stone strike's accuracy. Detonation seems much less appealing once you realize it has a 10 second cooldown while assassin throw has a 2 second cooldown and fear bag has 4.  |
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19 Aug 2006
| #34 | |
| Anemone Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Trickster Stats Arcade Awards MyTrade: (0) |
Ok you seem to miss serious points and comprehending here, so... 1) As supposed to fighting 100 different mobs with hp/def values that varies, now you need to pick certain few that meets the criteria to fit in the 1hitko pattern. So... are you saying that your choice is NOT MORE limited as opposed to those that maintain 2-hit or 3-hit or whatever hit KO pattern? Is it not also fact, that there are more than ->one<- types of monsters on a given map? Are you also saying that it's equally rewarding to kill every single one of them in 1hit ko pattern? If i take queen yamu example or even the previous map where there are this lv 30 and lvl 9 monsters. Let me use your own example again, Kokebi? Can you say it straight to your own face that it's easier or comparably easy to find party in rainbow/poppuri/moss dungeon than it is elsewhere, say, path of oops warp? It certaintly show that is INDEED your choice is limited in finding party/optimum map to hunt, to exploit the benefit of having small addition on DA you try so hard to maintain. Pretty clear here, not sure why you view it otherwise. *point: A) NO map gives you a state such that every single monster there net you optimum obtained exp value. B) your choices ARE limited. 2) now let's establish another thing. Do you agree with me that the role of 1-6 DA (translates to 2k-3k damage roughly in low-mid lvl) is LESS in a 2-hit pattern vs. 1hit-pattern? Of course it is, to maintain 1-hit pattern you need to cover THE WHOLE HP of mobs. Now, can you say that it's easier to pull 3k damage over 3k HP monsters or to pull 1.5-2.9 over 3k HP monster? The role of those 1 to 6,7,8,9 points of addional DA diminish as: your lvl gets higher, fighting higher lvl monsters with higher def/hp value, your OWN natural increase on DA, natural DA weapon boost, monster MIX in certain map, and so on. What is 47 damage or even 470 compare to 3000-4000-5000 or even 6000 damage you are doing already? Guess what, that's what you will do. Point: the higher your lvl is, thus the higher your damage dealt, the lower the benefit "additional" DA (outside what you are "supposed to have" from lvl tier equipment and increasing stats). And the the point where the benefits sharply diminish occurs at early lvl state. 3) I can tell you with 100% certaintly that instead of killing queen yamu ->exactly<- for 1 hit for 0.2% exp, i can simply move to a map where i have COMPLETE mix of 10-20 higher monsters and 2 hit them for 0.5% PER HIT. There i have the luxury of adjust my DA by 5,6,7,8,9,19 points towards OTHER STATS (whether it's in the form of equipment or my own base stats. Mind you, i do not imply HIT/AC or even LUCK, it can be ANYTHING, from def,hp,luck,hit (if proven helps), etc). And the more room i have in damage might cover ALL types of monsters on given map. You and anyone else can confirm this yourself. Point: the time you reach the state where you can 1 hitko a mob on certain map, you simply go elsewhere and do 2 (or 3 or whatever # of hit KO) and gain MORE exp per HIT (minus the time needed to scout another monster for you to kill on the 1hit ko scenario). And at this state, your meager 47-470 damage (opps you still need 1000 more additional damage to do that) will not save you from God's wrath of having to kill every type on monsters on the map with 1hitKO. 4) Your level means... jack squat, it's not about you "can or always" kill mobs higher than you, it's about there ARE mobs higher lvl than what's you are currently killing where you can earn more exp per hit landed on them. And given point 1-3 in mind, these monsters will require you to deal 2 to n number of hits, and that your all-out DA won't make it so that you need fewer # of hits on them. 5) (to borrow from your ffs,what-in-the-world response) Who in the world said something about spending on AC or whatever specific stat? I said it -explicitely- that points spent on DA can be alternatively spent elsewhere (hp/def/whatever) to give best optimum exp gain overtime. The underlying idea is that full blown DA is NOT the optimum solution! (given that, your misconception in reading still somewhat says that it's equally waste/beneficial/indifferent to re-allocate a bit from DA to hitrate, or hell save some of the stat points.) Let's not play with words "i didn't say blabla". Use common sense and logic -.-. You can deduce/infer/imply. Dude, listen, you get certain DA improvement every 10 lvl, say, it's about 6 points every lvl change from gear (you GET this regardless, mainly from your knives, as long as you moderately upgrade). You can go all out full blown DA that gives you what, 4-5 additional DA (more as the lvl gets higher)? Where did you get that 30 DA figure from? Spending $1000 in Myshop item? Let me make it clear since you seem confused, you have 26-28 points on DA stat at lvl 60? That is TOTAL DA including what you supposedly get anyway from that locked-4 stats in sense. Roughly about 10-15 points from stat bonus including from socketed DA gear. So umm, where did you get that 30 figure again? You might spend 8 of the points on boosting DA and have the rest elsewhere and the and the exp/time of the 8 point > or = than that of the all-out-all-points-to-DA figure. *point: 1-5 in mind, going full DA is =>not the state of optimum result<=. And improvement in accuracy's benefit far outweigh that from maintaining leading DA figure in obtaining exp rate. BUT, it is ALSO true if someone prefers survavibility or keeping pots cost under control; in this case one can spend on def/hp/whatnot. 6) *LOL* if the reason why you go full DA is not about faster-kill, thus more exp over time, then what is? For the sake of having higher number popping up? -_- Or maybe some psychological accomplishment of having 2400 instead of 2336 on the screen? "ZOMG" this isn't about your eating or shitting instead of hunting, as you might think. It's about how a certain built state is more efficient than the other (yes, you BOTH are hunting and having willingness/drive to hunt -_-). In fact, your shitting/picking up nose/whatever isn't relevant at all. Your being power-leveled, even more, do not matter! We aren't talking about -exceptions- or -laziness shortcut-, it's about a guide/summary what A LOT of people read/find info from. The discussion/findings are meant for mainstream, average, mass of people and ONGOING! Even if you are getting p-lvled, you will hunt yourself, in which case, everything above falls into places again. Or you are the type who let others play for you while only staring at pure stat numbers and feel deep accomplishment without actually playing the character? Or perhaps, one who remain be a lvl 30 or 40 or 50 for the rest of your trickster life? Seriously, tell me any DA you want and find your holy mob to train on, and i can strip a few DA off and go elsewhere and get more exp than you can at a given time. I go check mobs info and maps my own, im perfectly capable doing this. Just re-read and try to comprehend the above again, i do not need to pick and choose every single fallacy you wrote >.<. "fourty seven damage of DA, that's a massive damage", how many 47's you need to cover 1 loss due to missing of 2700 damage, do you think? To think that the 47 is wasted-luxury as well since you still need 1 or 2 or 3 hits not 1.23, 1.4, 2.2 hits to kill a mob. Before you scream outa your lung, picking any number beside 47, read and comprehend again first the above. .... just to name a few. Bottom line is, see things in a bigger picture, the whole package, not merely isolating a factor and draw conclusion and form guides that affects a lot of people reading. When you are buying a race car, would you see only Horse power rating of the 10 cars you are going to choose from? Or do you also see their weight (weight/HP ratio), suspension, and many other things. note: So far, the arguments use the assumption that it's 1-hit vs 2-hit. But, falls perfectly into places, even if it's 1 or 2 vs 2 or 3-hits, just the magnitude is slightly less (i.e., the role of having/not having additional DA(s)). From effeciency perspective, full DA isn't the way to be. And, if you are not trying to be efficient, what is your reason then? Full DA is nothing but a useless excess-feature you pay for the sake of having it. If someone comes to you asking for advice, would you advice based on something you feel good on rainy day when 4 digits number has 47 extra value popping up? Certaintly not something "worth" to "guide" millions of people who are going to be SS users. Remember, it works for you, you feel satisfied with it, and it is OK like i stated on the previous post. By no means, i'm trying to change your way, so no need to feel offended eh. Go kill your queen mummy, bugs, this, or that to your heart content lol. But, i can train with fewer DA value and gain equal or more exp than you can, under our respective hunting/stats philosophy and have more room in spending stats on. (changed the tone of my posting from #5-6 to match yours  to tease a bit. my apology on this) | |
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