Trouble deciding: 2143 or 1144 Lion (and other misc stuff)

Technolink · 24 Jan 2008

Hey everyone. I'm just switching MMOs from Maplestory (been playing that since beta), so it feels kinda weird, coming from one of the most knowledgeable of the game to a total newb =P.

Well, anyways, I've read a ton of guides etc etc and I still just can't make up my mind. I'm a researcher, I got like 12 guides up in my firefox and just tabbed between them comparing data, and every one of them said
"1144 is slightly more hp, but you don't need that much more"
"2143 is slightly more attack, not enough to make a difference"

This is my first trickster character, and coming off of a Marksman (Maplestory 4th job crossbowman), long range is highly appealing to me.

I plan to stick with this for awhile, I have a 17x rl friend, so I might get a bit of funding if I beg (or give him math HW, lol).

As for skill, I saw this one in a lot of places:
1. Stone Strike Lv 5
2. Gun Carrier (passive)
3. Invincible Reload (passive)
4. Max Gun Booster
5. Loading on the Move / Quick Reload (passive)
6. Max Power Shot
7. Max Shooting Spree
8. Stone Strike Lv 10
9. Armor Destructor Lv 1
10. Max Lucky 7
11. Get either Fortune Hit or Keen Sense. Keep enough points free
to master Double Shot at TM115.
12. Max Double Shot

Is that the typically recommenced?

Thanks in advance!

riyokku · 24 Jan 2008

You'll eventually need to max out Strike to get armor destructor at level 1. Don't level AD though, unless you intend on going hybrid at 3rd job.

Keen sense is useful for PVP, but elsewhere it's kinda dumb. Pretty much use it for 1st-shot timed crits O_O
You'll want high amounts of LK for pistol whip, otherwise it's not as useful.

Other than that that's generally a good way to go.

Even though I am a 2143 myself, 1144 is the most reliable build...just takes the longest to level up. 2143 will level up slightly faster in the beginning, so there is a slight advantage there =/. 1144's going to survive a lot more later on though, so I would advise you go 1144.

And actually, 1144 will have a rather large HP difference later on. A friend of mine was 1144 and even when he was around 10 levels under me his base HP was around 300-500 higher than mine...add on 60 or so levels, the gap widens as you keep going. ._.

Of course, I had HP on my pet, and my guardian as well...so yeah =x

Khmer2k1d5 · 24 Jan 2008

Originally Posted by riyokku

You'll eventually need to max out Strike to get armor destructor at level 1. Don't level AD though, unless you intend on going hybrid at 3rd job.

Max out Strike? I think not, you only need it at LV 10.

Technolink · 24 Jan 2008

So you'd recommend 1144? The game is currently downloading so I have no idea how the training mechanics are, how much you get hit, etc.

So the extra point in power really doesn't add much attack?

I intend to follow the stated build, 10 strike and L7 (no keen).

BTW, my friend said it takes around 30 minutes to level up. As long as its under 3 hours I can deal with it. Maplestory was 8 hours a lvl (>_>) so I have some patients.

Khmer2k1d5 · 24 Jan 2008

It will... just might not be noticeable, just go 1144 ;o Oh, I also have a 3 in Charm, If I had a 4 I'd have over 8k HP... without EQs ;o

Technolink · 24 Jan 2008

Again, the 8k means nothing to me atm =P
I'll go 1144 due to my lack of experience, thanks!

riyokku · 25 Jan 2008

Originally Posted by Khmer2k1d5

Max out Strike? I think not, you only need it at LV 10.

Maxed out means level 10 (as you can't go any further except by mastering it). NOT mastered. <_<

I would definitely recommend 1144. It's the best PVP build, since a 4 in charm not only means higher DP-melee defense, but higher hv-gun defense, and HP-capability to take in more damage, as well.

I'm a 2143, and it's great, but sometimes I wish I could just switch to 1144 because I get owned by high-AP enemies like Soki all the time. ._. Even with an addition of some 700-800 HP (which makes my HP around 4.7k at my level I think), quite a few enemies still have the ability to oneshot me ._. The extra defenses will not only allow you to take more damage, but will also nullify the damage, as well as well as help you dodge more.

Gun damage is going to suck at first, but AC equips and higher levels will generally make up for it.

There are other skill builds as well, which are more glass-cannon types. 4141 is the most extreme, 3142 giving you a little bit more defense but you'll still need advanced kiting techniques. These skill builds aren't exactly recommended for beginners, so it's best to stick to either 2143 or 3142 =x.

Raukue · 25 Jan 2008

I been thinking I should change from a 2143 into a 1144 build. At Lv.400 it is only about a 25 AC difference. Being a 2143 you lose out on 3000 HP and 400 DP in the end, being Lv.400. You have to compound HP into your equips being a 2143. But, if you are a 1144, you don't really have to compound HP into your equips and you can focus on only compounding AC to make up for lost AC that a 2143 build would have. Not only that but a 1144 build would have extra DP and HV that of a 2143 build.

So yeah I am still iffy on if I should change it which to do that is to start all over which I rather not do or buy a Build Graph Reset.

Edit: Oh also check my Cyber Hunter guide which is on my signature there, the picture leads to it. Wonder if I should say that it does, dunno if anyone realizes that my signature leads to my guides... >>;

Technolink · 25 Jan 2008

Originally Posted by Raukue

I been thinking I should change from a 2143 into a 1144 build. At Lv.400 it is only about a 25 AC difference. Being a 2143 you lose out on 3000 HP and 400 DP in the end, being Lv.400. You have to compound HP into your equips being a 2143. But, if you are a 1144, you don't really have to compound HP into your equips and you can focus on only compounding AC to make up for lost AC that a 2143 build would have. Not only that but a 1144 build would have extra DP and HV that of a 2143 build.

So yeah I am still iffy on if I should change it which to do that is to start all over which I rather not do or buy a Build Graph Reset.

Edit: Oh also check my Cyber Hunter guide which is on my signature there, the picture leads to it. Wonder if I should say that it does, dunno if anyone realizes that my signature leads to my guides... >>;

Yea, I read your guide. I don't know about getting to a high level. My RL friend, it turns out, is actually a lvl 17x cyber hunter, and he's 3142 and said he enjoys it. He discouraged the 1144, so I might go 2143 in that case.

CodyZzZ · 25 Jan 2008

I am at 200 right now, with a 3142 build, and honestly I am in the same situation as you. At my level, all I care about is pvp. But even in PVP, a lion needs to balance AC,HP,LK, and sometimes HV too. What is better then, 20 or so AC, LK, or 3000 hp?...its unclear.

I am telling you this endgame info because if you level like you did in maple, you will get to a high lvl in no time. IT costs about 20-30 US dollars to change builds so think twice b4 starting.

Raukue · 25 Jan 2008

Originally Posted by Technolink

Yea, I read your guide. I don't know about getting to a high level. My RL friend, it turns out, is actually a lvl 17x cyber hunter, and he's 3142 and said he enjoys it. He discouraged the 1144, so I might go 2143 in that case.

If you are gonna go 2143, you might as well go for 1144. Lv.400 is only a 25 AC difference, not that you would really get that high anyways, and only stay at around a 12 AC difference at about Lv.200 I think it was. Easily made up for by compounding AC and not having to really compound HP.

A 3142 and 4141 builds well those... is up to them really. Between then again, it is just a 25 AC difference in the end, between the two. It is not that much of a damage difference. As I looked on the Trickster forums, it is only a 33% difference in damage, but only a 9.9% difference in PvP.

If you were to compare 3142 and 1144, if you are aiming for more damage of course you go for 3142. But 2143 just seems like... in between the two, and it is better to decide if you want more damage with the 3142 build, to have 25 more AC than a 2143, or 50 AC more than a 1144 build. And of course 75 more AC in a 4141 build than a 1144 build.

So what I am saying is, if you are going to go massive damage, a person shouldn't go half-ass on it, as I see it. If you are thinking between 2143 and 1144, choose 1144 and make up for that AC easily. If you are deciding between 3142 and 4141, I would say choose 3142 as again, you can make up for lost AC in a 4141 build easily, while still having more HP and DP than a 4141 build. This is how I see it...

1144 --> 2143 <-- 3142 <-- 4141

A 2143 build just seems to be in the middle and like I said, if you want more damage, or better survivability, choose between 1144 or 3142. A 2143 build is just in half-assed and a 1144 like I said can easily make up that AC with compounds and not worry about compounding HP. Same goes for a 3142 comparing to a 4141 build. ( Edit: Looking at it now, a 3142 could be considered half-assed as well, and should go all for 4141 build ).

Edit: I guess if you are going for damage all the way, I suppose a 4141 build is the way to go over a 3142. Just compound HP to make up for lost HP, while as a 3142 cannot really do that to catch up on a 4141 build, as I look at it now.

Fury of the Storm · 25 Jan 2008

Damage all the way while sacrificing what (little or large) sanity you have: 4141 AC, you need HP gear BADLY.

Good damage but still GLASS CANNONEY: 3142 AC... still need HP gear, so FAAAIL.

Complete and utter garbage: 2143 AC. It isnt worth it, like a whole 10 more AC at the cost of TONS of HP/DP/HV. Yeah sure, and guess what? 2143 STILL NEEDS HP GEAR! FAAAIL.

People with common sense and a brain choose: 1144 AC. Most well-rounded build, enough charm to ensure you live and such, and AC gear is availible which will make up for that lack of AC from 4141 AC. Trust me on this one XD

Raukue · 25 Jan 2008

Originally Posted by DemonSpree

Damage all the way while sacrificing what (little or large) sanity you have: 4141 AC, you need HP gear BADLY.

Good damage but still GLASS CANNONEY: 3142 AC... still need HP gear, so FAAAIL.

Complete and utter garbage: 2143 AC. It isnt worth it, like a whole 10 more AC at the cost of TONS of HP/DP/HV. Yeah sure, and guess what? 2143 STILL NEEDS HP GEAR! FAAAIL.

People with common sense and a brain choose: 1144 AC. Most well-rounded build, enough charm to ensure you live and such, and AC gear is availible which will make up for that lack of AC from 4141 AC. Trust me on this one XD

Yeah pretty much. I was a noob when I chose my build so that is why the mistake. If only I had done more research before starting. Oh well. If we win up to the 7th stage on the Poppuri event, that is a free graph reset right there, but still feels like such a waste. :cry:

BloodVeil · 25 Jan 2008

Lol 'People with common sense?' Its a decision based on personal tastes. Just because everyone else is 1144 doesnt mean you should go that way. And Any lion needs HP gear, regardless what build they are, some builds just require more HP for survivability than others. And lolwut @ Demon's description of 2143. Garbage yet Im not the only 2xx 2143 lion? Lol. Theres a few that are 250+ so it apparently is good for something. "At the cost of tons of HP/DP/HV?" I get more of those stats alone from just my base than than most builds, not including any gear I might have on. Im not saying the build is anything grand, but its not total crap either. I researched carefully the pros and cons to each build before I ever made my lion, and chose what I deemed more suitable to MY tastes. Im not really someone who wants to play a char who can deal godly damage but can also die in one hit from almost anything :/

On a pvp-related note, that 2143 IS NOT a build to go PURE AC on. Your LK is just too low to do much with. Its fine to grind with, but if you ever decide to pvp, the pure AC will screw you over if someone with much higher LK decides to mess with you. Now while Duber isnt really much of an example since he outshines many other lion players with his gears, even a Sticky Icky to him failed to land hits. I myself changed from a pure AC type to one that distributes more LK (Not pure LK). The loss to AC is noticeable, yes, but now people find me a little harder to hit. Its not something that bothers me much.

So, @ thread starter, if you wanted pure AC, 2143 should be something thats reconsidered, unless you plan to go pure (Scientist) for third. A pure might be able to pull the full AC 2143 off fairly effectively, but otherwise look furthur into something else, unles in the end its something you really want to do. In the end, all we can do is provide advice and insight on our own experiences.

Fury of the Storm · 25 Jan 2008

Of all people Veil I thought you'd think Pure was a garbage pile too.

useruseruser · 25 Jan 2008

I remember right before trickster came out everyone was screaming that you had to go 4141 because it had the highest damage.

Then the game came out and 95% of people that did this cried because they couldn't survive anything above level 20 and realized that the damage difference between 4141 and 1144 is hardly significant.

The damage difference is only good at high levels, and your punishment for it is every bit of your survivability.

BloodVeil · 25 Jan 2008

Originally Posted by DemonSpree

Of all people Veil I thought you'd think Pure was a garbage pile too.

At the moment, it is ._. I took one look at the skills pure would get and said screw that. I dont, and will never regret hybrid (Im really loving Gas Mask/Lightning Rod atm too, not to mention the older Aura/Sticky. And landmines are pure smex fun xD). But I was just trying to make a point that if you want a pure AC only build, 2143 cannot support that build effectively, but I mentioned a pure MIGHT be able to pull it off. I just know from personal experience that hybrid 2143 cannot support being pure AC.