Skills question

[thatdamtom]

Okay, im lvl 93 right now with a lvl 74 tm. Im a pure da melee lion. my da adds up to about 180ish right now, and can 13k crit damage on jokers. I was wondering if i should take away my lvl 8-9ish sticky foot, and put it all into shuriken mastery, cause im starting to feel like i cant kill anything in pvp due to the delay for 2 seconds, which is perfect amount of time for people to heal themselves, so should i get the shuriken mastery just as a combo hit while my stone strike is still charging up, or should i keep the sticky foot and just lvl a bit tm points and just start powering it up myself? Any suggestions, and also another question, i was wondering how much shuriken mastery hits ( Damage formula), and is the damage anything near the same damage as stone strike with 180ish da? Thanks in advance to everyone that replys big help =) Ign: Slicerx909 Just if you want to pm me some info/facts on shuriken or what i should do. Thanks =)

[Pyrofyr]

Shuriken Formula (Yay Wiki?)
(DA + AP(Throwing Item AP)/10) * Mag Ratio - 1

At the rest, I can't really say. It's not like it's hard to lvl up at around that lvl, so I'd say stick it out and earn the skill yourself. Won't you just end up swapping it out to then get Sticky Foot again really soon anyway? :S

[The Prestige]

If you are a DA Melee Lion, why didn't you get Shuriken in the first place.
Shuriken Mastery is symbiotic with Stone Strike. The work together. And plus, if you're DA-anything you're gonna be fail in PvP. Get rid of Sticky Feet and get Shuriken Master
The formula was already posted so yeah.

[thatdamtom]

Thanks guys =), So just get shuriken mastery correct? But i was wondering if the damage will compare even slightly close to stone strike?

[The Prestige]

Yes, SM has similar damage to SS. SM is weaker, but since SS + SM is symbiotic, they are like one damage. They both have the same cooldown and you use one during the cooldown of the other. Therefore, if you only had one, you'd have 1/2 of a whole.

[thatdamtom]

Lol k thanks, time to beg friends for a master authority XD so what throw weapon should i use for me lvl? (93)

[Inomae]

The damage on Shuriken won't be as much as Stone Strike, but the accuracy is great, and it's mainly used in that 2seconds cooldown time of SS, just like SS is used in the cooldown time on SM, if you're a lion who isn't using guns, then yeah you're best bet is to get SM because otherwise you've got an empty Ammo slot and for a sense type that's a bad move.

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by thatdamtom

Lol k thanks, time to beg friends for a master authority XD so what throw weapon should i use for me lvl? (93)

Level 90 Cross Spears (available from the Oops Wharf shop). Kinda expensive though...

[thatdamtom]

So im not 100% sure how these things work, your need multiple throwing things like, i need 500 cross spears, or just 1 spear will hold me for 10 lvls or so?

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by thatdamtom

So im not 100% sure how these things work, your need multiple throwing things like, i need 500 cross spears, or just 1 spear will hold me for 10 lvls or so?

If only that were the case. Everytime you use Shuriken Master, one is used up.

[thatdamtom]

Holy crap, thats gonna weigh a ton =(, well i guess i have to sacrifice something good for something good =)

[Inomae]

It weighs alot, but keep in mind that sensers have WT in our 4 category no matter what, that helps keeping it from being so terrible, the only problem is keeping LARGE amounts of high level throwing items... for this reason, and the fact that SM doesn't do *THAT* much larger damage with higher throwing items, is why most of us still use Big Needle at higher levels x.x

[Inomae]

Okay so I just went out and tested against Snow Kids in Sf

The damage difference was only 422 on regular hits, and 634 on critical hits between Big Needle and Cross Spear... In my opinion it's not worthwhile holding Cross Spears that weight 9times the weight of each Big Needle, and where you have to go to Oops each time you want to restock (which will be often, given their weight)

[Inomae]

Okay so I just went out and tested against Snow Kids in Sf1 (a pretty much neutral Physical damage monster.)

The damage difference was only 422 on regular hits, and 634 on critical hits between Big Needle and Cross Spear... In my opinion it's not worthwhile holding Cross Spears that weight 9times the weight of each Big Needle, and where you have to go to Oops each time you want to restock (which will be often, given their weight)


Sorry for the double post, was a weird problem while posting :X

[thatdamtom]

kk thanks, how much big needles can u carry/ and how much can u personnaly carry cross spears.

[thatdamtom]

So the skill is perfectly worth mastering it aside stone strike correct? cause i dont want to maek the wrong decision and have to master authority it laterr. Thanks in advance

[Drarin]

Yes, it's correct, yes...

Dude you make it sound as if like there's a SET PATH that you must follow. Just get what YOU think is good...

[Inomae]

As Drarin says, just go with what is comfortable for you.

Personally I tend to carry 1500 or so Big Needles around, I also carry 100 HP (2k) and 100 MP (1k) potions around at the same time. (Less MP if I plan on not using EE/LM), so with the 1500 WT that I put aside usually for Needles which are 1 WT each, I'd only have the room to carry 166 Cross Spears because they are 9 WT each.. I'm also 160+ with mastered Heavy Carrier to give you an idea on how much WT I have (over 17500)

The way that Shuriken Master works is that it takes the Throw AP and divides it by 10, then adds it to your DA. Basically this means that a Big Needle is like +2 DA. A Cross Spear would be like +18 DA, but it's weight is also much higher. Seeing as per DA Shuriken is about +33 damage, the difference of 16 DA there is only about 500 damage...

My Shuriken with Big Needle on Yeti does 7972 damage, in this case if my goal is to OHKO then it's better for me to use a slightly higher throwing weapon, because Yetis have about 8.5k HP or so that you need to do to kill them. Using the Saw Blade Rings that Yetis drop (Throw AP 300, WT 15, lv 150) I'm able to OHKO them, however I can't buy Saw Blade Rings at any stores, so I can only carry whatever I find by picking up from Yetis. Anyway, the Saw Blade Ring is the equiv of +30 DA (or 28 DA over Big Needle) But really, since I need to be level 150+ to use the Saw Blade Rings, I've never really cared about picking them up during my time leveling at Yetis, and so it's not really mattered... Because I can still OHKO the Yetis using Stone Strike and Explosive Expert, so being able to OHKO using SM isn't a big priority to me. So in my mind I'd rather be carrying 1,500 Big Needles for 1,500 attacks, rather than carrying 100 Saw Blade Rings for only 100 attacks that do about 700dmg more than the Big Needles per, overall the Big Needles are a better WT/Total Damage ratio

Based on my current dmg vs Yetis using each weapon
Big Needles x1500 = 11,958,000
Saw Blade Ring x100 = 869,000

Big Needles are overall the best dmg/WT ratio out of all the basic throwing items in my opinion (not counting upgraded ones, which are terrible to collect enough of) simply because you get so many attacks with them, even if you need to use 2 Big Needles instead of a single Saw Blade or whatever, you'll still have a better ratio of DMG to WT total. Also the fact that when you're carrying say only 100 of a certain high level throwing item, you're gonna run out really fast compared to 1500 Needles

[Wonderdesire]

or u can use big needle. its less damage but weight very few.

[Pyrofyr]

Or you could check out This guide to see what's actually worth using or not.

It's up to you whether or not you find the difference worth it. If you were to properly delegate potions and throwing items, you could probably indeed hold quite a few more Cross Spears than you think you could.

Oh, and I'm not saying it'll be OMG never have to pot, but you could be going from 5 minute pot runs, to 10 minute or so pot runs, which are a big difference. :S