1144 or 2143 Fox?

jolleet · 19 Feb 2008

I don't know what to choose 'cuz with 1144 I miss often.

Shadowmage29 · 19 Feb 2008

If you really can't stand missing too often go 2143, but I would suggest that you get better AC equips rather than choosing 2143.

NegaRutabaga · 19 Feb 2008

Without AC equips (or lol Gun Booster), you'll still miss a noticeable amount of times using Stone Strike with 2143. At around lv 100, a 2143 fox only has like 6 AC more than a 1144 fox.

The difference is so small because BOTH builds have poor AC growth. 3-4 in Power is when AC growth starts having a decent effect on Stone Strike, but then you have to sacrifice more Charm just for higher hit rate. And Stone Strike always takes you into close combat...

That's when you have to ask yourself " is hitting more often with my core attack skill worth having less base HP/DF/HV? "

Supposedly there's going to be a another buff skill that boosts Stone Strike's hit rate in the future. But there's been no absolute information on when we might get that skill or if it will even be worth using...

Levin · 19 Feb 2008

Who stills misses with stone strike outside of pvp/gvg at the upper lvls anyway? Even without GB my fox has like 150 AC(not a lot but enough for pve) now with all the free myhax given out.

If you're missing a lot just get some ac equips instead of stockpiling more da if you already ohko/2hko.

Inomae · 20 Feb 2008

I made my Fox 2143 when I first started trickster before I really even knew that much all about the differences in builds and such. I've personally not had any problems with having gone 2143, and as you get higher and higher in level, the difference between that 3 and 4 charm becomes less and less as well, because of all the DP/HP/HV possible equipment that is coming around and being able to be used with DA equips as well.

A few examples:
GMV, Obvious, it's a huge HP booster that is now extremely common for the moment.
Bruce Lie, +18 DA/LK/HV/AC, +1008 HP. Killer pet!

Music (Xeno), Teacher (Tsun), Planet (Mercury), pets are also all good AC/DA/LK pets, but their HP is a bit lacking and they give no HV compared to Bruce ^^
Golden Lion Sword: +8 HV/DA
Golden Lion Shield: 119 DP
Pop Pendant, largely HP compable, moderate HP/DA/HV boosts
Melon/Strawberry/ChocoAlmond, all really really kickass HP equipment for their levels
Suitcase Shield 170, the only reason I bought a couple Love Boxes, the shield I got was: (And keep in mind the HP/DP/HV here is about 50% of what their possible maxes are for this Shield o.O) DP 345 (now at 407 at lv 2 refine), 1115 HP, 18 (+21 comp) DA, 12 HV, and even 243 MD. The HP/HV on this shield are about 100 levels worth of 1 Charm point, little more I think in fact.. (As at lv 161 w/ 3 Charm I have 3720 HP, meaning if I'd had a 4 Charm, I'd have had 4960 HP. 3720/3+3720 for that equation. The HP per point of charm from 161 levels is 1240, so 1115 HP is like 150 levels worth of a single point of Charm.. And I have 30 base HV..) the DP however is much higher than just 150 levels worth o.o it's like the whole 400 levels worth, unrefined o.O

As to my 2 in Power. At 161 I've got a base of 70 AC. Using the calculation for that, a 1144 at the same level would have a base of 60 AC, now yeah, using AC equip could make up for the 10 AC, but I'd rather simply wear even more DA equip! And Gun Booster would be possible to make up for it as well yeah, but then again.. I'd rather not waste the 25 TM or whatever it is x.X

I'd say you need probably around 80-85 AC from my experience to be able to reliably hit most things that you'll be training on from 100+, at level 100 as 1144 you'll have a base of 56 AC, so that's +30 AC you need to get to really make sure that you don't miss a lot, a good myshop AC pet can make up most of that, but then there's still like 10 AC more you need... And if you don't have/don't want to use Myshop, you're gonna be even more hard-pressed on AC and that 2 in Power for that *little* +6 bonus might just be enough to separate a hit from a miss.

By the way, not only is a 2 in Power actually good and in some people's opinions worthwhile for the extra AC for the sacrifice of defense, but it's actually twice as fast of growth as a 1 in power, when you think about it that way that makes it uber :P

Also ... It's better to hit your opponent on the 3rd try after 2 misses than hitting your opponent on the 5th try after 4 misses, that *little* bit more amount of HV definetly won't cover you, (it's the same as the amount of difference of AC by the way, so a 4 Charm at level 100 will only have 6 HV more than a 3 Charm.), the DP for sure won't cover you (it'll be 108 more DP, which isn't *bad* but it's surely not extreme either compared to what simply wearing good equip will do for you.), the HP difference will be 750 at level 100, which sounds pretty good.. but you consider that's .. what? 2 hits or so from mobs, if not less? Better to hit on the 3rd try than the 5th try as I said...

wackykid · 20 Feb 2008

personally i would still prefer 1144... even though 3 and 4 charm MAY not be too big a difference... the difference between a 1 and 2 in power is even lesser...

so i rather go for the most charm i can possibly have... than to go for 3 charm.... compounding HP is more expensive than any other stat...

moreover i solve the problem of "missing" with shuriken master... which i have NEVER seen it missing in PvM.... even for mobs over 200 lvls above me... plus it has long range and low MP usage...

regards,
wacky