Receiving My Shop Gift

Chesters · 13 Jun 2007

JUN.12.2007

We have been seeing an increasing number of payment disputes over My Shop purchases recently and would like to take this opportunity to explain this situation and its consequences to all of our players.

When someone recharges their My Shop points via credit card, clickandbuy.com, or PayPal, the points purchased are immediately added to the Trickster Online account and are available for use on My Shop. If this same person later claims to their payment processor that the charge was placed fraudulently, the money spent is refunded as a result of this dispute but the points (or purchased items) are not removed as all charges are final as agreed.

Therefore, any My Shop points that were previously purchased have now been essentially received for free, placing the account in a negative balance. When this occurs, the account is locked until the disputed payment is returned in full bringing the negative balance to zero.

This financial responsibility is transferred to any account which receives gifted My Shop items. This means that gift recipients are also responsible if the original gift giver (or the financial authorizer) files a payment dispute. If you purchase My Shop item from a direct purchase using points that you recharged yourself, there is no problem as long as no payment dispute is filed against recharge those points. If you receive the My Shop item from another player as a gift, and that player later disputes the payment made to recharge the points that were spent on the gifted item, the recipient’s account will be locked until the negative balance is brought back to zero.

It is for this reason that we strongly discourage accepting gifts of My Shop items from any player, as there is no way to guarantee that this player will not later dispute the payment used to purchase those My Shop points. Doing so is done at your own risk. We would also like to take this opportunity to remind all of our players that My Shop items cannot be traded for Galder or other in-game or real world incentives, we simply do not support nor provide any game functionality to trade, drop or sell a My Shop item(this includes My Camp and Gacha item as well).

We have recently locked a considerable number of accounts in connection with receiving gifted items from players who have disputed the payments. If you believe that you may be included in this group of locked accounts, please submit a 1:1 Support request under the category "Billing" to receive further instructions. Bear in mind that any accounts locked for this reason are not available for play and will *not* be reopened under any circumstances unless payment is made in full for the items received.

Billing Support Trickster Online

StudyPunkRockism · 13 Jun 2007

Did they just implement this, or was it always there? Either way, I'm happy; hopefully I'll get less beggers on a daily basis. This is something Maple Story needs to implement...

Catharsis · 13 Jun 2007

Ergo, the risk of in-game ban only applies to those who accept the gifts...

OokamiKage · 13 Jun 2007

Yah it would have to be that the person has to actually accept the gift.

... I mean what if someone wanted to try and get someone banned by billing a whole bunch of stuff and gifting it and then file a dispute.

NoeJeko · 13 Jun 2007

Notice to the Banned:

If you were banned because of this unauthorized transaction, send a 1:1 support to Trickster to find out how much you owe. Once you know the amount, please PM it to me and do not post it here. I'm working on something and can make no promises at the moment but I want to help these people.

EDIT: Please provide me a screenshot of the 1:1 responses. While I'd like to help, I need to take measures to ensure that people don't use this as a scam opportunity. If the amount owed is excessive I may not be able to do anything.

If I am able to help out and I catch anyone trying to scam out of this you will be permanently banned from this community. Period.

Katorskay · 13 Jun 2007

dude *** thats really nice of you to help the people like is. but I can't really help you guys since im underaged with no credit card etc. but i really hope you guys get your accounts back ._. *especialy swords and xtemari!*

Rydia · 13 Jun 2007

Am I understanding this right? If the charge is disputed the ONLY party to get the ban is the gift reciever? Meaning people could go on some crazy spree, gift 39493 people, make millions of galder and then dispute the charge, get their money back and just go on like nothing happened? errr? .____.

Fuzz · 13 Jun 2007

Rydia you are technically right. As long as they arent caught before.

And also [NOTE THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE]. Say I have

Bill, Harry, Tom, and Frank on my friends.
If i were a dumb fraud payer i could gift them all items for free, if they are used all 4 are banned while I would get off the hook for free (unless i was caught)

But I dont make fraud payments... it was just an example

13 Jun 2007

Originally Posted by Rydia

Am I understanding this right? If the charge is disputed the ONLY party to get the ban is the gift reciever? Meaning people could go on some crazy spree, gift 39493 people, make millions of galder and then dispute the charge, get their money back and just go on like nothing happened? errr? .____.

errrrrrrrrrrrr
that's correct O_o!!

NoeJeko · 13 Jun 2007

Originally Posted by FuzzySqurl

Rydia you are technically right. As long as they arent caught before.

And also [NOTE THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE]. Say I have

Bill, Harry, Tom, and Frank on my friends.
If i were a dumb fraud payer i could gift them all items for free, if they are used all 4 are banned while I would get off the hook for free (unless i was caught)

But I dont make fraud payments... it was just an example

Surely there must be a safeguard for this. If the items are never "received" by the individual (removed from the Gift section on MyShop) then they aren't used. They could just send a 1:1 and ask the GMs to remove the items then all is settled. I'm pretty sure everyone that's been banned has withdrawn and used the items in question.

Furthermore, this would place responsibility back on the seller.

MyEyo · 13 Jun 2007

Pretty much.

Perhaps they think it'll be easier to shake the money from the reciever? MyShop items are untransferable; once its designated for an account, it will stay there. Credit cards can be used in multiple accounts; the same card can be used on different accounts. In the end, the reciever is in the worst position because he has the most to lose; certainly the account that he gets the MyShop in will also store his main character and his best stuff. This reciever would have more reason to pay the balance to regain his account than the seller. The seller could sell MyShop through different accounts and transfer galders to an untouched account that wouldn't be suspected of illegal MyShop trading, allowing the seller to avoid losing anything. Ntreev could freeze those seller accounts, but they wouldn't be of any value to the original seller because his possessions are somewhere else.

Just what I think. Not saying that it is the reason or anything.

EDIT: response to Rydia's post, btw. Man, I type very slow. >.<

Andz · 13 Jun 2007

Originally Posted by Rydia

Am I understanding this right? If the charge is disputed the ONLY party to get the ban is the gift reciever? Meaning people could go on some crazy spree, gift 39493 people, make millions of galder and then dispute the charge, get their money back and just go on like nothing happened? errr? .____.

All I know is you have to be added to the friends list, right?

Buddy Request [NO]

chaoslucifer · 13 Jun 2007

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In the US, persons that commit credit card crime largely go unpunished and repeatedly victimize consumers and businesses. The Secret Service handles crimes involving the US money supply; they have a limit of $2,000 before investigating each crime. Most credit card criminals know this and keep purchases from any one business below $2,000. With credit card crime occurring across state lines, criminals often are never prosecuted because the dollar amounts are too low for local law enforcement to pay for extradition.

thats basically it, they may just probably ignore and going pay-or-ban circumstances

PlayerKiller · 13 Jun 2007

Hey think of it this way: Ntreev = a business, what's the main goal of having a business? MONEY!

Ntreev don't care how long you've been playing, they don't care how many friends you've made... just like every other business they think about their main goal, money.

Yes I know Ntreev can't go around pardoning everyone for their misdeeds, that would make them look weak and overall it's highly improbable.

When you're dealing with someone that has full control over your things, make sure not to piss them off or else something like this ordeal will happen.

Xaistlin · 13 Jun 2007

At the rate this thing is going, I think its gonna blow up real good.
There are several issues here i believe that SHOULD be addressed.

1: Multiple accounts that could possibly be held by the "Seller/Gifter/Fraudalent purchaser(scammer)"
2: Why is it the account that is gifted be banned?
3a: Why are they taking the stand that ALL myshop items cannot be traded?
3b: Make SOME MYSHOP items tradable?
4: Why isn't Ntreev making it such that 1 player can get only eg 3 accounts? If not why are we only given 3 character slots in 1 account?(usual issue in any mmorpg, known as the "we need more character slots/More accounts allowable please<3" disease.

Quoted from the terms and conditions from the registration page. (darn its IN a SUPER small box. Why isn't it given enough space for people to read? <insert>sarcasm</insert>

Ntreev USA Inc. will not be liable for any loss that you may incur as a result of someone else using your Account, either with or without your knowledge. However, you will be liable for losses incurred by Ntreev USA Inc. or another party due to someone else using your Account. You may not use anyone else's Account at any time. Your membership is personal to you and you may not transfer or make available your Account to others. Any distribution by you of your Account or related information may result in cancellation of your account without refund and additional charges based on unauthorized use.

*Note the bold: However, you will be liable for losses incurred by Ntreev USA Inc. or another party due to someone else using your Account.
***By disecting that phrase, i get 3 things:
1: players gifted items by fraudalent purchasers are held liable?!(fraudalent purchase problem)
2: player1 can be liable for losses incurred by player2 due to player3 using player1's account. (so i'll be liable for losses of other players if i got hacked?)
3: The underlined section, someone gifting me lots of items to get me banned, is it considered someone USING my account? (definition issues)

1 & 2 are linked, because there is NO where to trace back to WHERE/WHO the "Seller(scammer)" is from, thus the only way to get back the real time ingame goods that the sell is to hold the player's account for ransom.

Hey think of it this way: Ntreev = a business, what's the main goal of having a business? MONEY!

Ntreev don't care how long you've been playing, they don't care how many friends you've made... just like every other business they think about their main goal, money.
Yes I know Ntreev can't go around pardoning everyone for their misdeeds, that would make them look weak and overall it's highly improbable.

When you're dealing with someone that has full control over your things, make sure not to piss them off or else something like this ordeal will happen.

*Time to PROPERLY register players? Rather than linking it to their Email and name, which is easily obtained?

*Note 1: By doing a business, risks must be taken and Methods must be come up with to prevent MONEY issues, like the current fraudalent purchases. Make MYSHOP purchases available after 1 week?(Saw someone post this a while ago)

*Note 2: Nteev did not take ways how different games (for eg. Maple) handle multiple accounts. ALL accounts made are ambiguious, except for the email that is used and the name. This results in problems in TRACING the culprit of fraudalent purchase.

*Note 3: Ntreev still allowed people to make character names like :X~<_>|(using symbols). Be hard-fisted and ban them too or warn them to change within lets say? afew months?

This will lead to many many problems.
Any opinions?
I don't mind to properly register at the webbie to make sure IF i get into SUCH a mess, so it could be tracted WHO was the joker who did the gifting.

Please note the recent "player chosen" method of payment, which was ANOTHER payment method via credit card. The Most number of votes for that poll was "PRE-PAID CARD". Check that out.

I rather USE my OWN cash to buy a PRE-PAID card and pay for my own MYSHOP items.
Lets make a vote, how many players of eTO has credit card access that is THEIR OWN credit card. *Hopes to see kids from 10-16 with credit card access <Insert>sarcasm</Insert>*
Look at WOW, they too have prepaid cards/credit card payment methods.

Would it be the shipment cost of Pre-paid cards to other countries which would cost them a bomb? or would their current action of banning innocent players affect the current view people have of the game.

From what i see, the player base of eTO is not big and their action will ONLY make honest players turn away(due to loss of account) from a nice and good mmorpg.
Its good to be hard-fisted on the police-ing issue of fraudalent purchases, but this resulted as players could make unlimited accounts due to their registration system previously. Ntreev did not plan well.

As i have JUST checked, there is NO input if Social Security Number(SSN) in the registration. From where i'm from, we call it Identification Number. Does it help if Ntreev has our SSN to trace who is the fraudalent scammer?

Question: Should they LOCK 1 credit card number to 1 account, to reduce multiple account myshop scamming? This would prevent the "Gifter" from spreading too much damage with 1 credit card, by using multiple accounts and the same credit card.
*I do know of the "bad credit" user thingie (someone help me on this? can't remember)*

There has to come to a point where there is a win-win situation for the consumer(gamer) and the service/game provider(Ntreev).

shmoo83 · 13 Jun 2007

Sigh....

They should just remove the Gift Feature... -prevention is better than the cure-

To prevent further incidents like these.

Sigh....

QbiFox00 · 13 Jun 2007

"When this occurs, the account is locked until the disputed payment is returned in full bringing the negative balance to zero.

This financial responsibility is transferred to any account which receives gifted My Shop items. This means that gift recipients are also responsible if the original gift giver (or the financial authorizer) files a payment dispute:

I dunno bout u but.. I understood that as the Seller AND BUYER being responsible. Cuz it INITIALLY said the seller account would be locked. Then ANY accounts that were gifted BY that seller account will also be banned. So no it's not just the BUYERS that are gonna be in trouble.

xKakashi · 13 Jun 2007

Originally Posted by QbiFox00

"When this occurs, the account is locked until the disputed payment is returned in full bringing the negative balance to zero.

This financial responsibility is transferred to any account which receives gifted My Shop items. This means that gift recipients are also responsible if the original gift giver (or the financial authorizer) files a payment dispute:

I dunno bout u but.. I understood that as the Seller AND BUYER being responsible. Cuz it INITIALLY said the seller account would be locked. Then ANY accounts that were gifted BY that seller account will also be banned. So no it's not just the BUYERS that are gonna be in trouble.

That means they get payed twice for something people bought once?

Winfy · 13 Jun 2007

1.) The receiver has to be the person in debt, there is no logical way around it. Else i can just create an account and have it gift items to my main and do a charge back.
2.) Even if they take away gifting, i CAN still abuse charge back by creating a newbie account and buy lots of nates and repairs. Upgrade my items to level 11 using nates and repairs from the newbie account and then do a charge back.
3.) The only 100% surefire way is that you have to wait for an amount of time until you can no longer do a charge back before you actually get the points. This option is, of course, completely infeasible.
4. ) One way is to make all myshop items tradable only after a certain amount of time when its no longer possible to do a charge back. And disable gifting. This will not help against number 2, but it will save innocent players a lot of grief.

Freyalise · 13 Jun 2007

Originally Posted by xKakashi

That means they get payed twice for something people bought once?

Not if at least one of the parties refuses to pay at all.