What do people compound on Master Katanas 2 slot?

Haruchi · 31 Oct 2006

I have a lv 2 Master Katana... 205 ap....2 slot...
what do people usually compound on it....

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

DX...i'm almost entirely sure.

but you're a fox?

Haruchi · 31 Oct 2006

are u entirely sure...? I know Ryuho has a DX one....

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

The other options are AC and some element right? In that case, yes, i'm sure.

stuffy · 31 Oct 2006

I think element is better (more dmg), DX is not very useful without element anyway. This is just my opinion.

Flyojumper · 31 Oct 2006

Yes, element is the best thing to compound on it, but many people waste their katanas' potential by compounding the lv50 fire element instead of the harder to acquire lv70 fire element item...
Haruchi, can you check your private message box and get back to me? :)

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

Elements only actually add damage against monsters weak to that element...making the compound useless against the majority of monsters.

crazypalu · 31 Oct 2006

@juno: actually, you get added damage against any monster no matter what element you use, just even moreso if the monster is weak to your particular element or if the monster is magic weakening.

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

I added air element to my Odd Rapier and didn't see any damage increase at all.

Flyojumper · 31 Oct 2006

Elements don't affect skills, just auto attacks, so you likely tried some skills when testing that. They are for the builds that make full use of DX and use auto atk for damage, not the builds that spam skills.

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

Actually, due to me being very allergic to potions, I'm usually sticking with just plain attacks.

crazypalu · 31 Oct 2006

@juno: what are you comparing your elemental sword against? (for a correct experiment, you need to compare for example, an unrefined craft rapier to an unrefined craft rapier that's been compounded with element. you can't compare craft rapier with a sharp rapier, cuz granted a minimum compound craft rapier could still suck against a level 5 sharp rapier...) if you are comparing your odd rapier with itself, before the compound, then you should have seen some difference...

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

I fought with an odd rapier, then got the idea to get an element on it. I fought with it to get the element, compounded it in, and saw no difference against monsters not weak or strong against said element except the cool little air effect, which was totally worth it.

So it was the same sword, exactly the same save the element.

fieryshadowcard · 31 Oct 2006

Crazypaulu is right, Juno.

My level 3 master rapier (170 AP) with 49% air greatly outdamages my level 3 sharp rapier (187 AP) and even outdamages my level 2 master katana (189 AP) with 34% fire by a fair amount. Keep in mind that I'm using a 3124 pure DP cat, so the differences won't be nearly as great as a 4114 pure AP cat or an AP hybrid of some sort with either a 3 or a 4 in power. I lose about 43 damage on my non-crit power blow against Mong by using my wind rapier and not my fire katana, but my melee gains about 20 per hit. I get 3 hits in before I can recast Power Blow, which means my damage increases by about 17. If my rapier's melee crits, however, it outdamages my rapier's non-crit Power blow by about 30. Basically, any melee crit I do turns into a non-crit Power Blow.

The formula seems take your overflow damage (damage after enemy defense) into consideration (of your OVERALL overflow, not just the weap's attack), then any non-elemental resistances or weaknesses into account, then elemental damage and finally elemental resistances or weaknesses which would only affect the element-based damage.

If you were doing 1000 overflow, and the monster was physically weak with a 13% bonus while using my wind rapier, then the formula would go: 1000*1.13*1.49=1683.

Only factoring in the weakness without the element, we'll get 1130 damage, which means there's a 553 damage difference between just your attack and your attack with element. Even if we factored in, say... a 20% elemental resistance, you'd be doing 80% of your elemental damage, which is 553*.8= 442 so the damage would be...

442+1130= 1572.
----
With my fire katana, you'd be doing 19 extra damage before the weakness or element, so the formula would go: 1019*1.13*1.34= 1542

The damage without element is 1151, making the difference 391. 80% of that is 312, so...

1151+312= 1463
----
With a level 3 sharp rapier, you'd be doing 17 extra damage before weakness, so the formula would go: 1017*1.13=1149

Taking a master Power Blow into account (no titanium added) for all, the numbers would be as such:

PB damage with wind rapier= 1000*2.4*1.13=2712
PB damage with fire katana= 1019*2.4*1.13=2763
PB damage with sharp rapier= 1017*2.4*1.13=2758

Between the fire katana and the wind rapier without elemental resistances, you lose 51 on the skill, but gain 141 on each melee hit, and you'll be doing multiple melee hits between Power Blow cooldown, so your dps goes up considerably. Even with elemental resistances, your melee on the wind rapier goes up by 79. If you equip only a good DX helmet, you'd be doing much more damage with an elemental weap than with a DX weap. DX on a weapon gets outclassed by elements when it comes to melee, and by AC when it comes to skills. Of course, your element has to have a good percentage to do this faster. Using a 1-slot item and not refining it will definitely not have much of an impact, if any, unless the rest of your attack is high and the elemental compound is insane on the item. Also, the more the enemy's defense cushions your non-elemental AP, the closer the numbers come together.

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

Then why didn't I see even a single digit damage increase?

Also, where did these numbers come from?

And elements don't work with skills.

fieryshadowcard · 31 Oct 2006

I know they don't work with skills. None of my skill formulas factor in elements. What are you using your weapons against? And what is the element % on your rapier? Test the odd rapier and whatever else you're using, and give me the damage difference.

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

There was a 0 difference, I was disappointed. I no longer have the weapon though.

Where did your formulas come from? And the last paragraph was skill damage wasn't it?

fieryshadowcard · 31 Oct 2006

My formulas came from testing the damage on low-defense monsters, moderate-defense monsters, and high-defense monsters, based on a few of my own weapons while using theoretical resistance and weakness modifiers.

As for my last paragraph, what that was showing was how much skill damage goes down (if element affected skills, the skill damage goes up) in contrast to how much melee damage goes up.

Take a sharp weapon at level 3 or 4. Ask a friend for an elemental weapon with a good element compound (nothing bare minimum) and somewhat less attack than the sharp, then go to cora. Whack torrobies. Then go to abyss, whack flats. Go to phantom and whack gallis, then to poppuri, whack larvas. You'll start to see the role element plays in the damage. On low-defense monsters with weaknesses, you'll see the best results. On anything with decent defense and moderate resistance, even then you will see good results.

Edit: If there was 0 difference, that means that whatever your elemental damage was, it caught up to the damage of your refined weap, meaning the odd rapier without the element would have been considerably less. A 1-slot weap isn't exactly the best thing to compound an element to when you want to see a huge difference, as it's that much harder to get a high %. That's how the formula would work. Either you weren't doing a lot of damage to your target, or your elemental % wasn't really that high.

Juno · 31 Oct 2006

What refined weapon? It was the same weapon, unrefined at all times. I hit an anemone, compounded it, and hit an anemone...for the same damage.

If it comes from tests you must be right however...i have no idea why it didn't work for me.

This was lvl 58ish by the time i got the element, so i was doing a fair amount of damage.

fieryshadowcard · 31 Oct 2006

All I can say is to retry the test. When you have the time and feel like burning money, buy two of the same weapon (one or two slots won't matter just for testing). Whip out a weapon with slightly more attack but without element. Start out with the non-element weapon that has the same base attack as the element one and hit something. Then, take the elemental weapon and hit the same thing. Finally, take the stronger non-elemental weapon and hit something. This will help you compare the progression of damage. A good elemental % should be able to outdamage the melee of the slightly higher weapon. Any elemental % will be able to outdamage the melee of the non-element version of your weapon.

I promise you should see some results this time around; if not, I'll quit this game.